../Msgboard/General customization/WindowMetrics... Are we missing something?
WinT - 17 Aug. 2003 - 12:30:
WindowMetrics... Are we missing something?
And that's just the question I continuously ask myself over and over again, are we missing something?
Here's the thing...
I was browsing through the reg earlier, and of course, checked out the WindowMetrics key, and it just kills me how it's just right there, staring you in the face, but it seems to be limited to the point of no return.
Displayset, great app it is, and I use it for not only colors, but to adjust the sizes of my Window components as well. As you've all seen from my desktop shots, I like everything to be small, as small as it will go.
If looking under the WindowMetrics key however, the for example, MenuHeight and MenuWidth, are both set at "-180". I changed this to several different values over the course of an hour or so, restarted every time, never saw one single change.
Then, I removed the - from the values, assuming that the "-" is used to represent a "negative" value, and set it to 10, just to see what it would do, and still nothing. Now, the interesting thing is, is that all the - values would always change back to -180, every time, but, once the - is removed, it stays at 10, and is in fact, at 10 right now, but no change.
Also, I deleted the BorderWidth value to see what the reaction would be, but no change there either. The borderwidth value is still gone though, it did not come back, but, I've still got borders around my windows. Now if the damn key isn't there, how's it working? lol I'm sure it's some sort of "code" related thing, but I would have at least appreciated an error message or something.
Oh well, I'm just rambling on here, but I'm just wondering if anyone has ever really messed with this stuff? What are we missing? There HAS to be more that we can do. I'de like to make everything even smaller then it already is, especially toolbars, the address bar, etc... and I'de like to have no borders around windows. It would SEEM as if the WindowMetrics key would be the place to go to achieve such basic things, but I suppose not.
Again, just rambling, but would love to get a collaborative effort going on this with everyone. Someone is eventually bound to tap into something at some point
WindowMetrics... Are we missing something?
And that's just the question I continuously ask myself over and over again, are we missing something?
Here's the thing...
I was browsing through the reg earlier, and of course, checked out the WindowMetrics key, and it just kills me how it's just right there, staring you in the face, but it seems to be limited to the point of no return.
Displayset, great app it is, and I use it for not only colors, but to adjust the sizes of my Window components as well. As you've all seen from my desktop shots, I like everything to be small, as small as it will go.
If looking under the WindowMetrics key however, the for example, MenuHeight and MenuWidth, are both set at "-180". I changed this to several different values over the course of an hour or so, restarted every time, never saw one single change.
Then, I removed the - from the values, assuming that the "-" is used to represent a "negative" value, and set it to 10, just to see what it would do, and still nothing. Now, the interesting thing is, is that all the - values would always change back to -180, every time, but, once the - is removed, it stays at 10, and is in fact, at 10 right now, but no change.
Also, I deleted the BorderWidth value to see what the reaction would be, but no change there either. The borderwidth value is still gone though, it did not come back, but, I've still got borders around my windows. Now if the damn key isn't there, how's it working? lol I'm sure it's some sort of "code" related thing, but I would have at least appreciated an error message or something.
Oh well, I'm just rambling on here, but I'm just wondering if anyone has ever really messed with this stuff? What are we missing? There HAS to be more that we can do. I'de like to make everything even smaller then it already is, especially toolbars, the address bar, etc... and I'de like to have no borders around windows. It would SEEM as if the WindowMetrics key would be the place to go to achieve such basic things, but I suppose not.
Again, just rambling, but would love to get a collaborative effort going on this with everyone. Someone is eventually bound to tap into something at some point
i infected WinT with this BorderWidth thing.
i felt there should be some min/max values for these entries but it's so hard to believe we can set only the colour of the ButtonShadow, ButtonDkShadow, ButtonLight and ButtonHilight entries but we can't hide them. i know, i know. skinner utils are able to hide them with transparent bitmaps...
once upon a time i tried ShellWM with a so-called borderless skin. there were 1 pixel border. but. there are websites with css code portion that is able to hide that inner (?) shadow,light,etc or the 1pixel border of the windowframe (internet explorer).
for example: http://www56.tok2.com/home/susumu/index.html - you'll see there is thinner windowborder.
and there is a themeui reshack to enable 'borderless' explorer windows when folder tasks are enabled.
so what?
and don't forget, i'm just looking for this stupidity because i use a 3rd party app that is able to move/resize windows with alt+click. afaik borderless windows are not resizeable with mouse.
i felt there should be some min/max values for these entries but it's so hard to believe we can set only the colour of the ButtonShadow, ButtonDkShadow, ButtonLight and ButtonHilight entries but we can't hide them. i know, i know. skinner utils are able to hide them with transparent bitmaps...
once upon a time i tried ShellWM with a so-called borderless skin. there were 1 pixel border. but. there are websites with css code portion that is able to hide that inner (?) shadow,light,etc or the 1pixel border of the windowframe (internet explorer).
for example: http://www56.tok2.com/home/susumu/index.html - you'll see there is thinner windowborder.
and there is a themeui reshack to enable 'borderless' explorer windows when folder tasks are enabled.
so what?
and don't forget, i'm just looking for this stupidity because i use a 3rd party app that is able to move/resize windows with alt+click. afaik borderless windows are not resizeable with mouse.
Interesting page indeed, had never seen that one in all my time of being here, strange. I wouldn't have even posted this thread has I known about that page, only because that proves that my question "has anyone messed with this stuff before?" is answered in full
Oh well, just seems like there should be more, something secret, hidden, never done before, but maybe not.
Oh well, just seems like there should be more, something secret, hidden, never done before, but maybe not.
i edited my post. and this page is not special. there are a lot of pages with this css code - of course there are.
i think maybe not. windows is just windows - it's not as complex as the universe
i think maybe not. windows is just windows - it's not as complex as the universe
No, no one is "connected" to MSDN, and could the people there answer some of our questions? Well, I'm very sure that they could, without a doubt, afterall, is is MS, however, I highly doubt anyone from MSDN would respond to any emails requesting information on how to manipulate the OS which they developed It just doesn't work like that, at least, not that I know of anyway.
It just doesn't work like that, at least, not that I know of anyway.ha, and here i thought you had to be in the same process...
once again, grigri's kung-fu shines.
i've played with that vbaccelerator code a few times and found it to be rather interesting, and have also been over the code for shellwm in particular. a little out of my league, i guess, either that or it just requires more patience than i normally have.
once again, grigri's kung-fu shines.
i've played with that vbaccelerator code a few times and found it to be rather interesting, and have also been over the code for shellwm in particular. a little out of my league, i guess, either that or it just requires more patience than i normally have.
It *is* possible, it's just not easy
It will however require programming. The registry just doesn't have the options necessary to accomplish what you want. It doesn't mean you'll have to re-write ShellVM though, it's not that extensive.
Write a simple dll that starts/stops a system-wide hook (WH_CALLWNDPROC should do). Inside that, check only for WM_NCPAINT messages. This is the message that requests drawing of the window frame. The wParam of this message is a handle to the "update region". Based on the physical border width [ use GetSystemMetrics() ] create a region that contains the window but NOT the border (a simple rectangle). Then convince Windows to use this region instead of its own for the update (possible methods: directly swap the variables; assign your new region to the old one using CombineRgn(); cancel the original message and post your own; or temporarily set the window region to yours using SetWindowRegion() [there's a difference between a Window Region and a Window Update Region], and no border will be drawn.
Of course, when you start the hook you'll have to tell every window on the screen to redraw itself completely, to get rid of the already-drawn borders.
Obviously, there's a bit more to it that this; you need to filter for windows that already don't have a border, detect whether it's a thin or thick border and use the correct measurements, etc... but that's the main gist of it.
The advantages of this method:
* no subclassing of all windows [like ShellVM does], so less messy, especially at teardown
* no cross-process memory is required
* is very fast and efficient, no real graphics routines
So give it a try!
It will however require programming. The registry just doesn't have the options necessary to accomplish what you want. It doesn't mean you'll have to re-write ShellVM though, it's not that extensive.
Write a simple dll that starts/stops a system-wide hook (WH_CALLWNDPROC should do). Inside that, check only for WM_NCPAINT messages. This is the message that requests drawing of the window frame. The wParam of this message is a handle to the "update region". Based on the physical border width [ use GetSystemMetrics() ] create a region that contains the window but NOT the border (a simple rectangle). Then convince Windows to use this region instead of its own for the update (possible methods: directly swap the variables; assign your new region to the old one using CombineRgn(); cancel the original message and post your own; or temporarily set the window region to yours using SetWindowRegion() [there's a difference between a Window Region and a Window Update Region], and no border will be drawn.
Of course, when you start the hook you'll have to tell every window on the screen to redraw itself completely, to get rid of the already-drawn borders.
Obviously, there's a bit more to it that this; you need to filter for windows that already don't have a border, detect whether it's a thin or thick border and use the correct measurements, etc... but that's the main gist of it.
The advantages of this method:
* no subclassing of all windows [like ShellVM does], so less messy, especially at teardown
* no cross-process memory is required
* is very fast and efficient, no real graphics routines
So give it a try!
Excuse me i don't leave this topic die...
Sorry, now i'll write down everything without think about it:
I gave up. It's impossible to hide the borders on all Windows.
First most windows has a sizebox thickframe, then they have a 1pixel border, they have two 1 pixel lines (in the client-aera??) those are stands for 3Dbordershadow and 3Dborderdarkshadow, then there are the 3Dborderlight and 3Dborderhilight on each window (we can set the color of these 3Dthings with 3DCC or DisplaySet). And i recognized there is another 1 pixel line near to the border that belongs to the non-client area - basically it should be the frame of the window.
It equals 2+2+1+1(+1) but in practice it's 'only' 6 pixel wide - maybe because the sizebox is not a separate 'thing' - it should be the whole borderarea.
I don't know.. i'm dumb.
image.
description:
red=3DLight
yellow=3DHiLight
blue=WindowBorder
green=3DObjectFace(windowFrame?)
purple=3DShadow
black=3DDarkShadow
Sorry, now i'll write down everything without think about it:
I gave up. It's impossible to hide the borders on all Windows.
First most windows has a sizebox thickframe, then they have a 1pixel border, they have two 1 pixel lines (in the client-aera??) those are stands for 3Dbordershadow and 3Dborderdarkshadow, then there are the 3Dborderlight and 3Dborderhilight on each window (we can set the color of these 3Dthings with 3DCC or DisplaySet). And i recognized there is another 1 pixel line near to the border that belongs to the non-client area - basically it should be the frame of the window.
It equals 2+2+1+1(+1) but in practice it's 'only'
6 pixel wide - maybe because the sizebox is not a separate 'thing' - it should be the whole borderarea.
I don't know.. i'm dumb.
image.
description:
red=3DLight
yellow=3DHiLight
blue=WindowBorder
green=3DObjectFace(windowFrame?)
purple=3DShadow
black=3DDarkShadow
ok
But i'm really sorry bumping this thread because it seems this issue is not as important as others on VP.
Well, it's quite interesting. For instance there's Aqua-Soft.org as a base of MacOSX-look for Windows but they aren't too excited when Brad Wardell from Stardock announces that it would be possible to implement into WB (per-pixel?) transparency-features even if it would mean smooth rounded corners for their Windows-skins to mimic (almost) perfectly the MacOSX-look (and even if it could help refreshening their community because AS.org has almost died).
BTW, it's not the same here but i think we strive to make our desktops as minimal as possible, don't we?
Maybe this borderless thing is just stupid. Maybe because it wouldn't be possible to easily resize the windows without a 3rd party app (like WinMover).
Maybe because i waste too much freetime finding an answer.
Sometimes i become a child again. Stop.
But i'm really sorry bumping this thread because it seems this issue is not as important as others on VP.
Well, it's quite interesting. For instance there's Aqua-Soft.org as a base of MacOSX-look for Windows but they aren't too excited when Brad Wardell from Stardock announces that it would be possible to implement into WB (per-pixel?) transparency-features even if it would mean smooth rounded corners for their Windows-skins to mimic (almost) perfectly the MacOSX-look (and even if it could help refreshening their community because AS.org has almost died).
BTW, it's not the same here but i think we strive to make our desktops as minimal as possible, don't we?
Maybe this borderless thing is just stupid. Maybe because it wouldn't be possible to easily resize the windows without a 3rd party app (like WinMover).
Maybe because i waste too much freetime finding an answer.
Sometimes i become a child again. Stop.
man - don't worry yourself - this forum is dedicated to customizing our desktops in any way possible. to me, at least, stuf like removing the borders is major customization, and highly desired.
the only problem is that when we start talking about solutions to things via coding, there's not too many that are able to implement those solutions themselves until those of use who code can produce something for them to use and enjoy.
which really, is the part of desktop customization that i enjoy the most - coming up with solutions or new ideas based off of what might not have been done before, and then making those ideas or solutions available to everyone else.
the only problem is that when we start talking about solutions to things via coding, there's not too many that are able to implement those solutions themselves until those of use who code can produce something for them to use and enjoy.
which really, is the part of desktop customization that i enjoy the most - coming up with solutions or new ideas based off of what might not have been done before, and then making those ideas or solutions available to everyone else.
lol. I was always proud of my talent in using Goooooooogle
AlphaV 1.7 - This program allows changing extended attributes of windows and automatically does some actions using system of saved rules. Initially designed for enable alpha blending, it could control almost all interesting attributes (including hide borders, etc) of XP?s windows.
download AlphaV17.zip [1MB] (zipped - no installer)
This software is quite good! Try it! (2k/XP only
)
But it's rather funny because today this app was listed on shellcity.net toooooo.
My observations:
If you click the general tab, you can untick
"Dialog frame" to get rid of the 3Dlook of the Windowframe;
"Sizable" to get rid of the sizable frame of the window;
"With Border" to get rid of the border (and yes.. the caption - aka titlebar - too).
Now the problem is if you untick "Sizable" then you won't be able to resize your window even if you use the unix-like WinMover (alt+mouse)!!!
And even if you untick all of the three attributes there'll remain a pixel frame around windows.
Quite interesting, huh?
AlphaV 1.7 - This program allows changing extended attributes of windows and automatically does some actions using system of saved rules. Initially designed for enable alpha blending, it could control almost all interesting attributes (including hide borders, etc) of XP?s windows.
download AlphaV17.zip [1MB] (zipped - no installer)
This software is quite good! Try it! (2k/XP only
)
But it's rather funny because today this app was listed on shellcity.net toooooo.
My observations:
If you click the general tab, you can untick
Now the problem is if you untick "Sizable" then you won't be able to resize your window even if you use the unix-like WinMover (alt+mouse)!!!
And even if you untick all of the three attributes there'll remain a pixel frame around windows.
Quite interesting, huh?
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